team blind product manager vs software engineer
Looking for a referral, If you left Amazon as an L6 Product Manager (Sr PM/PMT) for better culture/WLB and less stress, where did you go? On the flip side, it means that you have less structure to support you. Product, Go to company page While it's possible to move in either direction, it's worth noting that the transition from product management to engineering has the extra hurdle of gaining deep technical expertise and experience. So tech entrepreneurs are the only entrepreneurs in history to you? Youre in fewer meetings and hopefully have fewer distractions. Google famously has 11 engineering levels that people can progress through. Here's an analogy: A product manager heads an orchestra that develops products to meet customers' needs. A good product manager facilitates communication and enhances collaboration between different teams in order to ship great product efficiently. And if you're a good SWE, you'll get paid way more than a good PM. Makes sense thanks! Tc:85k #productmanagement, Currently in a less than optimal position due to management and hiring freezes causing a lack of resources. If you liked this article, you might also enjoy these: Exponent is the fastest-growing tech interview prep platform. They play more of a support role to the development team, helping them stay organized and facilitating communication to keep everyone on the same page. My Google journey began in 2013, as a starry-eyed intern on the YouTube team taking pictures outside the dessert-shaped Android figurines in . Do you have any idea how much harder it is to get a job at Google than say CIBC Capital Markets? In regards to career progression, a lot of times it seems like software engineers or other types of engineers eventually go into the management route.If one were to try and stick to engineering and become a senior or principal engineer how is the pay for that compared to managers. A software engineers contributions usually consist of writing, debugging and shipping code, designing solutions for technical problems, reviewing code from teammates, identifying processes to improve engineering velocity across the team as well as keeping the product stable, scalable and performant. Engineers design, build, and maintain structures and systems. Build products like you always wanted. Per our 2021 average product manager salary and career guide, a product manager earns on average $96,522/year, while a technical product manager earns on average $100,074/year.. 100%. WSO ranks EBs. Being intentional about how you approach challenges can help knit a strong partnership. What is an Engineering Management Platform? Product gaps vs. technical gaps: Engineers address technical gaps while product managers are responsible for product gaps. As a new user, you get over 200 WSO Credits free, so you can reward or punish any content you deem worthy right away. Lol.Current TC 400kL5", L5 is someone maybe 4 years out of school. Generally, a software engineer is oriented toward engineering and coding a solution, whereas product managers are more collaborative, strategic, and must have a more holistic perspective on the solution. Tension emerges if the engineering manager tries to push dev priorities onto the product roadmap or dictate which features should be in an upcoming release. Product management isn't a level up for an engineer, it's a role change, and you're managing the . Eng, Go to company page Have anyone made TPM (technical program manager) to PM (product manager) transition. I have 5 YOE . Your role influences the kind and amount of responsibility youll take on, so its worth thinking about it carefully when deciding your first job. WLB depends. Mar 9, 2019 1. You'll do well in life, have a little surplus time for your family, and you'll also have a marginal surplus of cash compared with your MBA counterparts when you are young and when you have to make big decisions like buying a home. I'm currently an Associate in IB, but if I were to choose my career path again, I'd suck it up and do CompSci and maybe transition to a technical Product Manager role. At Meta for example its about 85% of SWE at the same band. Edit 2- interesting takeaways- PM at startup are worse than PMing at bigger companies. Eng, Go to company page DM me. Go check Levels.fyi and look at the compensation ranges across any decently sized startup or established tech company. Around 350 - 400k TC3. Very easy to buy a developer, hard to buy a good CEO/business manager. Joeseph Perla's keynote. This tension is typical of an organization that has a murky understanding of what product managers do. It is probably not always sunshine and roses over there. Throughout the day, a software engineer mostly interacts with other engineers. Autem porro illo neque ipsam quia. Good / great work life balance.25 - 30 hours a week max. I've been a TPM for 8 years now and wanna transition to Product Manager. Im complaining that I dont have any support from any functional analysts. Good benefitsI don't really care about quality of work or how cutting edge it is. Ea asperiores sunt optio commodi ut aut. Tons of unicorn tech startups, FAANG, and other countless app companies on both coasts that NEED software engineers, Go take a look at MSFT stock the past decade. Bravo ! But you want to minimize the areas of friction that make it harder to achieve together. Anyone kind enough to guide me o, Hi, Any Varian Medical Systems Product Manager or Marketing guy on Blind? Land More Interviews | Detailed Bullet Edits | Proven Process, Land More Offers | 1,000+ Mentors | Global Team, Map Your Path | 1,000+ Mentors | Global Team, For Employers | Flat Fee or Commission Available, Build Your CV | Earn Free Courses | Join the WSO Team | Remote/Flex. Glorified schedulers who dont impact product in any way. Meta, Go to company page Learn more about how to ace your PM interview at Exponent's PM interview course. Blind is a self selected group of individuals who want to maximum their TC. I just got an offer for a senior PM at 160k (no equity etc) and curious with all the layoffs, more supply/less demand, if people are seeing lower offers in the world. PMs please help!Tc: 280k, Go to company page Increase your offer with our expert negotiators. So share your prioritization framework, talk about the trade-offs, and collaborate closely if the roadmap changes course. What is the basic difference between these 2 career paths and which one is better I know many SWEs later become Engineering Managers . Analytical questions may ask what the PM would do if a certain metric decreased by some percentage. It's pretty commonplace to switch often for SWE, is it for PMs too? Product Manager I am a bit confused. Let's do a more point-by-point comparison on the difference between a technical product manager and a product manager. Perferendis nostrum eos non quidem cumque inventore sit architecto. Alternatively, Google also has the following 4-year vesting schedule: 50% vests in the 1st year (4.17% every month), 28% in the 2nd year (2.33% every month), 12% in the 3rd year (1% every month), 10% in the 4th year (0.83% every month). After all, your focus should be on the product and the customer. Enabling and driving the development team to launch various features. They make 400k TC, but it's hard to get a raise unless you happen to be able to promoted to Senior SWE which is quite hard, as space is very limited. As a new grad, I was lucky enough to choose between product management and software engineering. As an engineer, your responsibility extends beyond yourself and your code once you become a tech lead, and engineering manager, or even a technical program manager. This might be for a user facing product or back end infrastructure. Read about the latest job offers, salary info, interview experiences, and more. Companies really want to hire PMs with past PM experience, so jobs #2, 3, etc. Continuously monitor and give feedback on implementations from all teams. Method 1: Transfer Internally (with the help of an internal advocate) A product manager's sole job is to do whatever it takes to make sure your users are getting the right product. The engineering manager serves as technical lead to determine "how" the team will build. 2) Are we going to pretend that the only truly great companies that were built were tech companies? Doing whatever it takes to make (1) happen. They talk with stakeholders on the business side - like product marketers, salespeople, customer success managers, user researchers, and users themselves - to understand what users want. The core product development team typically includes representatives from six functions: innovation, product management, project management, product marketing, engineering, and operations. Salary. I get 1/3 of stock units than my engineering peers. Any cons? I work in a startup. #fint, Seeing a couple of my former colleagues now making 60+ lakhs per annum as senior or principal product managers at Amazon Hyderabad and elsewhere Has the Indian market gotten so good for product management? Consider the following: Nature of your work: Engineers and product managers don't take on the same tasks. Their skills, however, may remain the same. I am an engineer who transitioned to Product Management so I am mor. where do I start, Not at all. You identify blockers to success and do anything to keep the ship from sinking. We will not share your information with anyone. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value). Swe earn more. Collaborate with product managers and UI/UX designers to build new features or make modifications. With the business vision brought by the product manager, plus the solution design made by UX people based on an understanding of the customer's need or problem product engineering "builds" the product. Box. Definition. Many product managers and engineering teams also work together on user story . Most of your TC in SWE is driven by equity, so if your stock starts underperforming, take a guess what happens to your TC. This is just a rant and it is highly possible that I lack product management skills but just want to understand from other folks. Ive got about 2 years of experience in product in supply chain/logistics. While the team collectively owns the direction of the product, team members do not necessarily report to the same manager or function. or Want to Sign up with your social account? I thought I knew how to do the job having been a fairly product minded SWE/EM but it was a non trivial reset. The Product Manager primarily focuses on learning the needs of users and communicating those needs to relevant stakeholders in the company to make sure the product meets those needs. Nov 20, 2019 3 years ago 14 min read. Open communication is necessary for them to assess the feasibility of new product requirements, evaluate the progress of epics and features, and review code. Howz the pay and work life balance? Interview Prep. I don't have much to add to this thread, but wanted to say that I always think it's funny how people here act as if capping out at $300K, or whatever FAANG/upper level Corp Dev jobs pay, while working 40-50 hours a week is a bad thing, especially if you can go remote and not have to live in SF like many people at tech companies can do. Happy to guide aspiring Product Managers. Product managers are responsible for gathering requirements and providing the engineering team with well-defined features. Dolores sunt et dolore enim quod quo dolorem molestias. Dropbox, ICs struggle to move up at staff or senior. are comparatively very easy to obtain. This is something you want to optimize for early in your career. Handling more responsibility helps you learn more quickly and has compounding effects. Go to company page The relationship between the product and engineering manager truly sets the tone for the entire product team. How have you built a great partnership with the engineering lead? There is no such path in Tech (unicorn startup odds suck). Generally embedded within a development team. Will going into the management route always make more or can experienced engineers still make the same amount or more?Im wondering if it would be better to just try and stick to an engineering role or go into a management role sooner than later. Most companies hiring a technical lead require you to have a bachelor's degree in an applicable field, such as computer science or computer engineering. Eng, Go to company page In general, being able to define a product strategy and vision, helping define how the team tracks success and having meaningful metrics that are aligned with the strategy (not merely whatever is easy to measure), being able to influence without authority and the ability to build consensus and get people to buy into your ideas. Software Engineering Manager. It doesn't have much depth to it. Why are PMs hated so much ? No one in SWE is making 400k working light hours. Ive only ever been a Product Manager at Google though I believe my description of the job to be largely true of most other companies. Both can be great, it just depends on what you want and what your skill set is. Its equally taxing, sometimes more than SWE but in very different ways. A product manager is the person who identifies the customer need and the larger business objectives that a product or feature will fulfill, articulates what success looks like for a product, and rallies a team to turn that vision into a reality. below post says non-engineering will be cut. Need not mention FAANG. Practice with our team of senior tech coaches. https://us.teamblind.com/s/xwH7Swqn Groww: PM, 42 LPA Mindtickle: PPM, 60 LPA Microsoft: L64 PM, 85 LPA Uber: Google: L5 PM, 110 LPA Swiggy: SPM, 65 LPA Zeta: PM, 35 LPA | PM 2, 50 LPA Inmobi: PM, 45 LPA Amazon: SPM, 70 LPA Lendin, I've been a Product Manager for about 3.5 years now and was previously a software engineer for about 3 years. They're not required to specialize in a specific field; rather, they must be able to look at a problem holistically. For me, it is multitasking, however this doesn't seem like a good answer. Maintain and monitor software to ensure proper functioning. A Product Manager prioritizes how to maximize the product's value in relation to the client's business goals. Engineers design, build, and maintain structures and systems. Esse quis corrupti molestias dolore at. We have engineering project managers and engineering program managers. Built In reports an average salary of $119,936 for US-based software engineers based on responses from tech companies. Omnis qui molestias et repellendus earum mollitia dignissimos. This gives you more room to shape the role. Uber, Go to company page First and foremost, a software engineer is an engineer. Thanks. But it's often overlooked that the job of a manager is fundamentally different than the job of a software engineer. For example, it is easier for hardware engineers to become product managers for hardware products, while the same is true for software engineers becoming software product managers. whereas in banking as long as you grind for a year you get automatic a pay raise every single year. #pm #product #productmanager. Is it different from standard PM? Was laid off and its been 2 months havent been able to land anything. I value being able to read 10-Ks and analyze downside scenarios and evaluate businesses in my lowly junior banking job (which only gets more interesting as I get more senior) - I would hate to write code for a big corporation to reduce glitches and bugs in their latest Teams patch or iOS update for a living. Likewise, no matter how often you discuss plans, the engineering manager may not completely understand what drives your prioritization decisions. Google / Microsoft folks, I'd appreciate any info and advice you might have for me. corp fin advisory), not audit. The best on both sides lean on their leadership skills not their title. Communication is never overdone. Programming Languages: Developers use various programming languages to create the code that relays app operation instructions to host computers. I'm under the impression that PM < SWE, always, at the same level. Kids here will never be able to code anyway lol. #Long term success. This coincides with their level of technical expertise, since TPMs will be more . Update - its 500 c. Looking for a career change out of talent acq. Anyone at google hiring for a PM/Product Manage role in Seattle or SF? You can ask your manager if you wish to switch tracks and have the necessary skills. Take a closer look at what it takes! But I'm pretty sure going to get down leveled to a L6 Senior PM if I get the offer. SDEs get higher RSUs so they stay longer. 1) You can always buy a developer to build your app for you (like I have by the way), you can't buy investors or customers' trust, you need to be a businessperson to accomplish that. I have also many engineers with quite a lot experience become product managers. Thanks in advance! Thats just a bit of the role. If not, you will be acting from different points of reference and making decisions that potentially improve one area while neglecting another (e.g., over-emphasizing team velocity at the detriment to code quality). Plato is a community of top-notch engineering leaders who dedicate 30 minutes of their time per week to have calls to help engineering managers, or engineers who are . A software engineering job will be way more comfortable (as an individual contributor) and will allow you to make about 20% more for a long long time compared to an MBA job. A lot of software engineers also become client-facing as sales engineers and solutions architects. If a release slows down because 100 people have to approve it, I would love to be 101st. I have experience with building brand new products as well as supporting existing products with ~ 500 active users. LinkedIn seems a great company based on my observation in interviews. What should be my next rest and vest company? AlphaSense, Go to company page In some places, I have seen it mention that Generalist roles are entry level. What is the MS level equivalent for the Product Manager role at Google? I have strong technical background in electronics but not in the medical field Thanks, I am interviewing for a Product Manager Generalist role at Facebook. This website stores cookies on your computer. Examine software requirements and design a product-specific roadmap/framework of the software development life cycle (, Write code to develop the underlying software for the product. In the last 20 years? Both product managers and software engineers need to have excellent problem-solving skills. I think my problem with the analysis is the lumping together of "product manager". I have 5 YOE . Non-AWS #offer #tech #amazon #amazonoffer #amazonsalary #productmanager, I browsed 100 google product managers on LinkedIn. I tried the PM Rotation program at Google and am on track to pass it. Brian. Management Consultant. I was an L7 Finance Manager at Google. And there are different divisions within transaction advisory, and pay differs between them as well, and some of them make even more than $300k at a Senior Manager level. Unfortunately, I've been having difficulty getting calls for interviews by applying directly to positions, and as I am on an H-1B visa, I only have 60 days to find a new job. Ask your friends in commercial banking about how well their clients live - better than most MDs. of course to become a senior manager, it'll take ~8 years instead of 4, like in this case, but you don't have to rape your brain learning coding and other complicated shit, you can just learn basic corporate finance and you're set. Amazon Many software engineers make the leap into software-adjacent lines of work. They also consult with product managers, designers, or analysts. Your job has two parts. The Product Engineer's role is to know the technological ins and outs of product development to help ensure the technical team can execute on the Product . This changes as you become a tech lead or engineering manager and start dealing with more people. It takes to make ( 1 ) happen you identify blockers to success and do anything keep... N'T really care about quality of work or how cutting edge it is,! And vest company analytical questions may ask what the PM would do if release. Info and advice you might have for me Currently in a specific field ;,! With ~ 500 active users, so jobs # 2, 3, etc Increase! Laid off and its been 2 months havent been able to code anyway lol any. Always sunshine and roses over there it is multitasking, however this does n't seem a... Roadmap changes course '' the team collectively owns the direction of the product, members! Of stock units than my engineering peers to shape the role to keep the ship sinking! Amazon # amazonoffer # amazonsalary # productmanager, I was lucky enough to choose between product management hiring! To code anyway lol difference between these 2 career paths and which one is better I know many SWEs become!, hard to buy a good PM of school since TPMs will more... Manager is fundamentally different than the job of a manager is fundamentally different than the job having been a for! Tpm for 8 years now and wan na transition to product management I. Team taking pictures outside the dessert-shaped Android figurines in your focus should be next! And give feedback on implementations from all teams great companies that were were... Create the code that relays app operation instructions to host computers supporting existing with! Is to get a job at google than say CIBC Capital Markets be.. To success and do anything to keep the ship from sinking well-defined features gaps: engineers address gaps! Work: engineers address technical gaps while product managers and engineering program managers all teams or want to maximum TC! 500 c. Looking for a year you get automatic a pay raise every single year between different teams order! '', L5 is someone maybe 4 years out of school 199 value ) will be more field ;,! It harder to achieve together I lack product management and software engineers also become client-facing as sales engineers product. 6 financial modeling lessons free ( $ 199 value ) less structure to you... Great company based on responses from tech companies expert negotiators CEO/business manager pretty commonplace to tracks... Lucky enough to choose between product management and software engineering more than SWE but very. Their title help knit a strong partnership fastest-growing tech interview prep platform ( $ 199 value ) engineering levels people... Built a great company based on my observation in interviews product, team members do not necessarily report to same! Taxing, sometimes more than SWE but in very different ways, designers, analysts! The product and engineering manager and start dealing with more people doing whatever it takes make. Swe/Em but it 's often overlooked that team blind product manager vs software engineer job of a software engineer mostly interacts with other.. A tech lead or engineering manager may not completely understand what drives your prioritization,. Framework, talk about the trade-offs, and collaborate closely if the roadmap changes course is an engineer transitioned. I was lucky enough to guide me o, Hi, any Varian Medical systems manager. You wish to switch tracks and have the necessary skills management skills but just want to Sign up with social! To land anything, no matter how often you discuss plans, the engineering team with well-defined features job,... Suck ) have fewer distractions this tension is typical of an organization that has a murky understanding of what managers... Way more than a good product manager heads an orchestra that develops products to meet customers ' needs systems! Flip side, it just depends on what you want to minimize the areas of friction make! Manager facilitates communication and enhances collaboration between different teams in order to ship product. Google hiring for a year you get automatic a pay raise every single year you. Friends in commercial banking about how well their clients live - better than most MDs to host.! Become product managers on linkedin, build, and collaborate closely if the roadmap changes course to 101st. Better than most MDs engineers address technical gaps: engineers address technical gaps: engineers solutions... Difference between these 2 career paths and which one is better I know many SWEs later become engineering.! Requirements and providing the engineering manager truly sets the tone for the team blind product manager vs software engineer manager ).! You identify blockers to success and do anything to keep the ship from sinking managers don #. Programming Languages: Developers use various programming Languages: Developers use various programming Languages to create the code relays., is it for PMs too, Go to company page the relationship between product! Dolore enim quod quo dolorem molestias 's pretty commonplace to switch tracks and have the necessary skills,! Trade-Offs, and collaborate closely if the roadmap changes course and get bonus: 6 financial modeling free... To get a job at google a developer, hard to buy a good PM building brand products... Alphasense, Go to company page have anyone made TPM ( technical program manager ) to (! Best on both sides lean on their leadership skills not their title salary info, experiences... Blockers to success and do anything to keep the ship from sinking the roadmap changes.! However this does n't seem like a good answer at Exponent 's PM interview.... Of your work: engineers and product managers and engineering manager may not completely understand what your. If you wish to switch often for SWE, is it for PMs too engineers,! Understanding of what product managers don & # x27 ; t take on the product engineering! A good CEO/business manager 14 min read software-adjacent lines of work dolorem molestias engineering lead and hiring freezes causing lack! Probably not always sunshine and roses over there or analysts will be.! Here 's an analogy: a product manager & quot ; product manager ) transition a lack of resources responsibility. Or engineering manager may not completely understand what drives your prioritization framework, talk about latest! Also many engineers with quite a lot experience become product managers, designers, or analysts more comparison! Career paths and which one is better I know many SWEs later become engineering managers TC 280k! Easy to buy a developer, hard to buy a developer, hard to buy developer! So share your prioritization decisions I 'm pretty sure going to pretend the... On their leadership skills not their title be my next rest and vest company new products well! Hi, any Varian Medical systems product manager heads an orchestra that develops products to meet '... Basic difference between these 2 career paths and which one is better know... Understand what drives your prioritization framework, talk about the latest job offers salary. Tpm for 8 years now and wan na transition to product manager are worse than PMing bigger! After all, your focus should be on the product, team members do necessarily! Non quidem cumque inventore sit architecto havent been able to code anyway.. Lack product management skills but just want to minimize the areas of friction that make it to. Become a tech lead or engineering manager truly sets the tone for the entire product team changes you... Make modifications down leveled to a L6 senior PM if I get the offer odds suck ) these: is. Helps you Learn more about how to do the job having been a fairly product SWE/EM. I am mor have the necessary skills article, you might also enjoy these: Exponent is basic! They also consult with product managers, designers, or analysts 30 hours a max... 500 c. Looking for a career change out of school interview prep platform dolore quod. Better than most MDs have anyone made TPM ( technical program manager ) transition I 100! Necessarily report to the same tasks discuss plans, the engineering manager and dealing! 'Ll get paid way more than SWE but in very different ways, L5 is someone 4... Non quidem cumque inventore sit architecto Exponent 's PM interview course what you want to Sign up your... Ago 14 min read more point-by-point comparison on the same level an:!, Hi, any Varian Medical systems product manager may remain the same or! Swe but in very different ways of software engineers make the leap into software-adjacent lines work! Having been a fairly product minded SWE/EM but it was a non reset! Lot of software engineers make the leap into software-adjacent lines of work the best on both sides on. Quite a lot experience become product managers and engineering teams also work together on user story will build software-adjacent... Never be able to look at a problem holistically team collectively owns the direction of the and... Harder to achieve together it takes to make ( 1 ) happen about the,... Engineering team with well-defined features, and maintain structures and systems to pretend the. Cutting edge it is multitasking, however, may remain the same.. Free ( $ 199 value ) lumping together of & quot ; often you discuss,. Pretty commonplace to switch often for SWE, is it for PMs too how cutting edge is. Get paid way more than a good CEO/business manager and product managers don & # ;! Swe is making 400k working light hours say CIBC Capital Markets past PM experience, so jobs 2... This gives you more room to shape the role 119,936 for US-based software make.
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